California's Prop 8 backed by racists and child molesters
Tuesday, November 4, 2008 at 9:11am 5 comments (last by David "products with resell rights" Koflinger)
Provocative title right? It's very inflammatory and you might think I've resorted to the same kind of outright lies about forcing kids to attend lesbian weddings that the Yes on Prop 8 campaign has used in their ad campaign to take away the Constitutional right for same-sex couples to marry in California.
It's 100% true, but just because it's true, (unlike their campaign ads) that doesn't make it a fare argument against them. First, here's why the title isn't wrong:
The Catholic Church supports Prop 8, and many Catholic priest are child molesters, therefore child molesters support Prop 8.
Many Mormons support Prop 8, and racism used to be policy in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints which means a racists support Prop 8.
Notice any problems with these statements? With the Catholics, I'm attributing the behavior of some of it's members to the entire organization, but child molestation is not official church policy. This is what you call guilt by association and it wouldn't stand up in a court of law.
As for my racism claim, the Mormon church official ended their racist practices in the 1970's (when the IRS threatened to take away their tax-exempt status as a non-profit because there's some requirements to that besides just declaring yourself a church) and many (if not most) mormons today aren't racist. These days they have a reputation for being extremely friendly and generous, they did a lot to help after hurricane Katrina, but some of them are certainly still racist. This is a sweeping generalization of all mormons based on a few.
So what does any of this have to do with Prop 8?
Absolutely nothing, but if all that is true would it effect how you vote on a proposition these groups back? This is a tactic called poisoning the well and here I said horrible things about the supporters of Prop 8 in order to discredit anything they say.
And these are exactly the tactics taken up by the Prop 8 supporters who don't want to treat same-sex and opposite-sex couples equally. Instead of addressing the issue of marriage rights, which is not much of an issue since everyone can get married and no one is discriminated against, Prop 8 has been presented as an issue about education. The yes campaign has been inciting homophobia in parents which is irrelevant to the issue itself.
So even though the title of this post is true it has nothing to do with the proposition itself and no one should be swayed one way or another by provocative statements like this posts title, or campaign commercials saying education will be effected by Prop 8, without looking deeper.
5 Comments
Jamison Tuesday, November 4, 2008 at 4:11pm
Has anyone considered what it even means to "teach about gay marriage"? I'm not sure how much it comes up in school curriculum but marriage must be mentioned somewhere, and because all Californians can get married (at least for the next few hours) then it's not really feasible to leave out that gays can marry as well as straights.
Acknowledging we exist is not an endorsement, the same way schools likely mention interracial marriage without telling children it's something they have to do. Prop 8 does not contain anything about education, so it no more bans "teaching about gay marriage" that it's required now.
If Prop 8 passes, gay marriage will likely become more talked about in schools as teachers use it to teach about discrimination and how a majority of california voters decided to take people rights away. In fact, it would probably need to be part of the curriculum since they can't truthfully tell kids everyone is equal under the law.
Sam's Husband Nic Tuesday, November 4, 2008 at 4:51pm
I find the whole "teaching Gay marriage' thing funny because when I ask my friends w/ kids about this the response is that while it is being brought up in the classroom, it the children that are doing it - asking each other what its all about, asking their parents about the issue. One dad told me how his daughter came home rather upset by the hate regurgitated by a classmate whose family is for the measure. If the Yes folks didn't want there kids to kmow about Gay marriage, it seems to have backfired
hobie Tuesday, November 4, 2008 at 11:39pm
The Law of Deduction does not hold true in either of these statements...there would need to be factual statistics to have either of these statements be factual...It scares me that in 2008 we are still so narrow minded.
David "products with resell rights" Koflinger Wednesday, November 5, 2008 at 5:24am
You said: The Catholic Church supports Prop 8, and many Catholic priest are child molesters, therefore child molesters support Prop 8.
But based on classical logic, you can only say that some child molesters support Prop 8.
I think the same could be said for any group at all, since child molesters are a very diverse group.
randplaty Tuesday, November 4, 2008 at 3:09pm
Prop 8 supporters claim schools will teach about gay marriage. Prop 8 opponents claim the prop 8 has nothing to do with schools.
Both are true.
Its not poisoning the well or guilt by association. If prop 8 passes, teachers will find it very difficult to teach something that is illegal. And teachers do teach about gay marriage right now in schools. Of course permission slips are required etc, but if Prop 8 passes, it will be very difficult for teachers to teach about gay marriage.
As for the opt out of the instruction... many parents do not opt their children out because of peer pressure. They feel that their kids would be ostracized or labeled. So the permission slips is not a perfect solution either.
The actual wording of prop 8 does not mention schools at all of course, but it will affect instruction in schools. Make no doubt about that.
Either way, its difficult to make a complicated argument into a 30 second advertisement. That's why people start calling each other liars. I don't think anybody is lying here.